Top 10 Small Forwards coming into the 17-18 season? ( self.nba )
來預測一波 2017-2018 賽季聯盟前十的小前鋒吧？
樓主先來拍一下自己心目中的十佳小前鋒
1. 勒佈朗 - 詹姆斯。不需要更多解釋瞭吧。
2. 凱文 - 杜蘭特。KD 和科懷 - 倫納德在防守端的差距還不足以彌補他們倆在進攻端上的差距。
3. 科懷 - 倫納德。
4. 揚尼斯 - 阿德托昆博。上賽季他在球場上的攻防兩端表現的如同一隻野獸一般。
5. 保羅 - 喬治。和吉米 - 巴特勒相比真的很接近，但是我個人認為 PG 的攻防兩端都比吉米要略強一些。我認為 PG 應該公認比吉米排名更高吧。
6. 吉米 - 巴特勒。在我看來，要比海沃德更加出色。
7. 戈登 - 海沃德。
8. 卡梅隆 - 安東尼。
9. 奧托 - 波特。攻防兩端都很出色的球員，效率也很高。所以在我看來要比威金斯更好。
10. 安德魯 - 威金斯
各位都是怎麼想的呢 ?
For me
1. Lebron James. Self explanatory
2. Kevin Durant. The defensive gap between KD and Kawhi is not enough to fill the offensive gap between them.
3. Kawhi Leonard.
4. Giannis Antetokounmpo Was an absolute beast on both ends of the floor last season
5. Paul George It's close, but PG has the offensive edge AND the defensive edge over a Jimmy imo. I think PG should be the consensus better player than Jimmy.
6. Jimmy Butler Easily better than Hayward imo
7. Gordon Hayward
8. Carmelo Anthony
9. Otto Porter Good two way player with great efficiency. Good enough for me to to out over Wiggins
10. Andrew Wiggins
Thoughts?
[ – ] [ MIN ] Tyus Jonespollinium 421 points 9 hours ago
One of Butler/Wiggins will not be a SF coming into the 2017-2018 season, so that's kind of an important part to rectify
森林狼球迷：巴特勒和威金斯中的一個不會在 2017-2018 賽季打小前鋒的位置瞭，所以還是很有必要糾正一下這一點的。
[ – ] [ ATL ] Doc RiversBlitzArchangel 38 points 8 hours ago
Yeah it's kinda weird to see op put them on the list together.
是啊，看到樓主把他們都放在這個名單上的確有些怪怪的。
[ – ] TimberwolvesDon_Machetazo 21 points 5 hours ago
They both played SF a lot last year, so it kind of makes sense
不過他們上賽季打的都是小前鋒位置，所以這樣排還是有一些道理的。
[ – ] Pacerstacomptonpacers 70 points 7 hours ago
Except positions are dumb and don't mean shit.
把球員打什麼位置區分的這麼清楚真的太蠢瞭，而且這毫無意義。
[ – ] PacersDrak_is_Right 62 points 7 hours ago
then we might as well include every wing player including all SGs?
so Harden should be near top of list.
那我們是不是得把所有的側翼球員，包括所有的得分後衛都加進來？
那樣哈登應該出現在這份名單的最前列瞭。
[ – ] TimberwolvesDreadWolf3 43 points 6 hours ago
yup, SF is more or less arbitrary. We should have guards,wings and big men lists. Harden is a guard tho.
是的，小前鋒位置現在的定位變得越來越模糊瞭。我們應該列出最佳後衛，最佳側翼，最佳大個子球員這樣的名單。而且哈登打的位置是後衛。
[ – ] Spurssiaka_stevens 3 points 2 hours ago
Brad Stevens? Is that you?
綠軍少帥史蒂文森？是你本人嗎？ [ 譯註 1 ]
[ 譯註 1 ] 凱爾特人主帥佈拉德 - 史蒂文斯接受采訪時表示，" 我認為場上不再有五個位置，" 史蒂文斯說，" 可能現在可以簡化成三個位置，處理球的人、側翼以及大個子。"
[ – ] [ SAS ] Manu GinobiliPrimid47 87 points 8 hours ago
"Crock of BS. Wait till this season"
-Rudy
馬刺球迷：" 瞎列什麼名單，賽季結束後等著瞧吧！" ——魯迪 - 蓋伊
[ – ] SpursSmallFaithfulTestes 3 points 2 hours ago
Damn I really want Rudy to have a great year. Like 15/6/3 or something along those lines.
嗨呀我真的希望魯迪能打出高水準的一年。拿下場均 15 分 6 籃板 3 助攻左右這樣的數據吧。
[ – ] Supersonicsbiinroii01 568 points 10 hours ago
Most underrated SF: Robert Covington
提名最被低估的小前鋒：羅伯特 - 考文頓。
[ – ] 76ersmnewman19 167 points 9 hours ago
I love that /r/nba respects roco
76 人球迷：看到 Reddit 這麼尊敬我們的上將考文頓真的太贊瞭
[ – ] Lakersdnguyen93 70 points 8 hours ago
He is considered a god over at /r/fantasybball
他在 Reddit 的范特西籃球遊戲裡就是神一般的存在。
[ – ] [ MIL ] Giannis AntetokounmpoWIN011 29 points 9 hours ago
He's gonna get even less love with fultz and Simmons coming in : (
但是當球隊加入富爾茨和西蒙斯之後，他就不會得到這麼多的愛瞭 : (
[ – ] 76ersOnAWhale 45 points 9 hours ago
Nah, he's about to get a whole lotta love because he's gonna have an amazing season. Dude was surrounded by shitty shooters the last few years and defenses started focusing on not letting him shoot 3s. Now when he's the 4th or 5th option on offense with some really good offensive talent around him he's gonna have so much more space.
76 人球迷：不會的！他會得到更多的愛因為他將要打出一個很出色的賽季！這傢夥前幾個賽季身邊都是很糟糕的投手，所以對手的防守總會集中在他身上，不讓他輕易出手三分。現在在進攻端他成為瞭球隊第四或第五選擇，而且他在一群進攻端天賦出眾的球員身邊打球，他會得到更多的空位機會。
[ – ] [ TOR ] Amir JohnsonModernPoultry 16 points 8 hours ago
Roco is great. I dont think he makes this list but very underrated. Probably 11 if you extend it
考文頓的確很棒。我不認為他能排進前十，但是他的確是被低估瞭。如果把名單延長幾位他應該能排在第 11 的位置上。
[ – ] Celticsbteballup 25 points 8 hours ago
Don't think so depending on how you value Harrison Barnes, Jae Crowder, Trevor Ariza, and Danilo Gallinari
並不能認同樓上的想法，你把哈裡森 - 巴恩斯，傑 - 克勞德，特雷沃 - 阿裡紮，和達尼洛 - 加裡納利放在哪兒瞭！
[ – ] [ GSW ] Stephen CurryIronhide94 128 points 10 hours ago
Top 8 look great. I think a lot of other guys have an argument for 9th and 10th
樓主排的前八名看起來都很棒，但我覺得現在很多其他球員都有資格競爭下後兩名的位置。
[ – ] Cavaliersj0ydivisi0n 102 points 9 hours ago
Cedi Osman being vastly underrated in this thread. On the brink of Top 5 for sure.
騎士球迷：切迪 - 奧斯曼絕對是這個帖子裡最被低估的球員瞭！他至少能擠進前五吧！
[ – ] [ TOR ] DeMar DeRozanDeRusselDeWestbrook 24 points 9 hours ago
Yeah man, People be sleepin on Powel too, definetely around the KD-Kawhi range.
猛龍球迷：是啊大兄弟，人們也經常忽略我龍小將諾曼 - 鮑威爾！他應該能排在 KD 和倫納德左右的位置吧！
[ – ] Thunderunderceeeeej 53 points 8 hours ago
the amount of disrespect that kyle singler gets on this sub is sickening smh
雷霆球迷：這個論壇上這麼多人不尊敬我雷男神辛格勒真是快把我看吐瞭，手動搖頭
[ – ] RaptorsJoseCaldercat 58 points 9 hours ago
Still no Bruno? Smh
猛龍球迷：還是沒提到我龍的佈魯諾 - 卡博克洛？手動搖頭
[ – ] Vegeto1786 [ S ] 23 points 9 hours ago
Brazilian KD's time will come.
別擔心，屬於巴西 KD [ 譯註 2 ] 的時代會到來的！
[ 譯註 2 ] 卡博克洛身高 6 尺 9，臂展達到 7 尺 7，體型與凱文 - 杜蘭特相似，被稱為巴西 KD。
[ – ] 19ad9 186 points 9 hours ago
I think Harrison Barnes makes the best case for that last spot over Wiggins
我認為對於榜單上最後一個名額來說，哈裡森 - 巴恩斯可能比威金斯更加合適吧。
[ – ] Nitro1423 49 points 6 hours ago
I'd put him over Porter.
是我的話，我會把他排在波特前邊。
[ – ] Might_as_well_toke 28 points 3 hours ago
Harrison Barnes will always be slept on bc of his underwhelming finals performance
哈裡森 - 巴恩斯將會因為他總決賽臥底般的表現而一直被大傢忽略的。
[ – ] KnicksTHJisWerthIt 75 points 10 hours ago
Top 8 are spot on. I would go 9. Wiggins and 10. Harrison Barnes.
認同樓主排出的前八位小前鋒。我會在第九位選擇威金斯，第十位選擇哈裡森 - 巴恩斯。
[ – ] HeatGiannis1995 18 points 7 hours ago
Barnes over Porter. Shot creation > TS%
巴恩斯強於波特。創造投籃的能力比真實命中率更有說服力
[ – ] Raptorspussykicker 3 points 3 hours ago
People look at that TS and 3p% and automatically take Porter over Barnes, just baffling
人們看瞭一眼真實命中率和三分命中率就自動的認為波特強於巴恩斯瞭，這很讓人困惑。
[ – ] Vancouver Grizzliestrump_2-0_1-6 190 points 10 hours ago
I'd personally for now put Paul George above Giannis
我個人來說會把保羅 - 喬治排在字母哥之前。
[ – ] MavericksDirkNowitzkisWife 253 points 10 hours ago
I upvoted you for discussion, but for now I disagree.
Their stats are 22.9/8.8/5.4 for Giannis versus 23.7/6.6/3.3 for George.
So George is slightly better scorer but Giannis grabbed a good deal more rebounds and assists. Giannis' true shooting was 59.9%, and George was 58.7%. Defense is harder to quantify, but Giannis had 4.5 defensive win shares versus 3.1 for George, and Giannis averaged 3.5 "stocks" per game, to George's 2.
I know advanced stats love a volume stat stuffer guy like Giannis and don't usually pick up what a guy like Paul George does. I also know that despite true shooting numbers, George is a much better 3 point shooter. He took 6.6 a game and made over 39% of those. But I would give the slight edge to Giannis.
為瞭討論我給你點亮瞭一下，但是現在我不是很認同這個觀點。
他們的數據對比如下：字母哥場均 22.9 分 8.8 籃板 5.4 助攻，喬治場均 23.7 分 6.6 籃板 3.3 助攻。
所以喬治得分比字母哥略高一點，但是字母哥抓下瞭更多的籃板送出瞭更多的助攻。字母哥的真實投籃命中率達到瞭 59.9%，喬治則是 58.7%。防守端很難量化對比，但是字母哥防守勝利貢獻值為 4.5，喬治則是 3.1。字母哥場均還能拿下 3.5 次的搶斷 + 蓋帽，而喬治隻有 2 次 [ 譯註 3 ]
我知道高階數據更傾向於選擇像字母哥這樣能夠填充各項數據的球員，而不是選擇像保羅 - 喬治這樣的球員。我也知道盡管真實命中率比字母哥低，喬治仍是一位更加出色的三分投手。他場均出手 6.6 次三分，並且保持瞭 39% 的三分命中率。但是我還是認為字母哥實力更強一點點。
[ 譯註 3 ] Stocks 在這裡指搶斷數與蓋帽數的總和。字母哥上賽季場均 1.64 次搶斷，1.89 次蓋帽。保羅 - 喬治上賽季場均 1.59 次搶斷，0.36 次蓋帽。
[ – ] BucksBeaugin 166 points 9 hours ago
Giannis and PG are drastically different scorers despite being within 1 ppg and just over 1% difference in TS%. Paul George took 325 shots within 10ft, and 1,113 from outside that range. Giannis attempted 893 shots within 10ft ( 687 of which were at the rim ) and only 477 jump shots.
Paul George is a more versatile scorer, but he might lean too much on his jumpshot, where Giannis doesn't have much of a jumpshot at all. Depending on your surrounding talent, you could probably make an argument for either player.
字母哥和 PG 完全是風格迥異的得分手，盡管他們場均得分隻有 1 分之差，真實命中率也隻有 1% 的差距。保羅 - 喬治在 10 英尺之內的投籃有 325 次，10 英尺之外的投籃有 1113 次。字母哥在 10 英尺以內的投籃有 893 次（687 次出手在籃筐附近），他隻出手瞭 477 次跳投。
保羅 - 喬治是位進攻手段更加豐富的得分手，但是他太依賴於自己的跳投瞭，而字母哥則沒有這麼多的跳投次數。根據你周圍的天賦水平，你可以在二人中做出更合適的選擇。
[ – ] MavericksDirkNowitzkisWife 37 points 9 hours ago
Oh yeah. I got into an argument on here awhile back that just because your true shooting is better doesn't necessarily make you a better scorer, and I think this is a great example. George has the "Kobe" syndrome, of being the only real option on his team, taking tough shots etc. Your true shooting will be pretty high if you're always driving and dunking like Giannis. So, despite George being more versatile, I would still want the ball in Giannis' hands i I needed 2 points, if that makes sense.
哦對瞭，我之前還和別人討論過這個問題，你的真實命中率更高並不意味著你是個更加出色的得分手，然後我認為這就是個絕佳的例子。喬治有著他的 " 科比接班人綜合征 "，比如他是球隊唯一能仰仗的得分點，經常投出高難度的球等等。如果你像字母哥那樣頻繁殺入籃下暴扣的話，那你的真實命中率也會變得很高。所以說呢，盡管喬治是進攻萬花筒般技巧豐富，我仍希望在需要得到兩分的時候，能把球交到字母哥手上讓他攻一個。
